tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post1838800667939610113..comments2024-03-28T09:46:42.923-05:00Comments on Every goddamn day: 03/28/24: "Better racist police than ignorant thugs"Neil Steinberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11468057838260476480noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-74929792317230775232014-12-09T16:43:15.063-06:002014-12-09T16:43:15.063-06:00W.S. Gilbert's lyric proclaiming that "a ...W.S. Gilbert's lyric proclaiming that "a policeman's lot is not a happy one" was true from the very start.. When the first official police force in the Anglo-Saxon world, Sir Robert Peel's "Peelers,"(as they were called before becoming "Bobbies") appeared in 1829 they were met by the London polulace with fear and distrust until people realized that their presence made the streets safer and they could restore order without the carnage inflicted on unruly mobs by untrained and often drunken militia, who usually opened fire as soon as the Riot Act had been read.. But there has always been a tension between their two conflicting missions, to keep the peace and to supress crime. It seems to play our more violently in this country than elsewhere, among other reasons because of our history of racial conflict, the ghettoizing of racial and ethnic minorities and the fear created by the fact that both police and citizens go about heavily armed. When a number of British cities erupted in anti-police rioting and looting a few years ago there were only three fatalities, all caused by traffic accidents.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09641357239788323783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-24163039556461825352014-12-09T13:27:16.906-06:002014-12-09T13:27:16.906-06:00Could you imagine (or hope not to) what the outcry...Could you imagine (or hope not to) what the outcry would be if the weekly shootings that plague certain neighborhoods was suddenly widespread across all areas of Chicago and suburbs? How about the headline '10 shot/4 killed in Streeterville again this weekend'? If the residents of our finest neighborhoods were forced to hide in their condos and rowhouses to escape the flying lead?<br /><br />RCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-91087835168864169322014-12-09T12:48:02.809-06:002014-12-09T12:48:02.809-06:00An intriguing point. Thanks.An intriguing point. Thanks.Neil Steinberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468057838260476480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-59001996294282301782014-12-09T11:58:52.249-06:002014-12-09T11:58:52.249-06:00Returning to yesterday's column, I was struck ...Returning to yesterday's column, I was struck by this comment by someone on the SCC blog. "You resist, there are rules in place to overcome your resistance." Part of the reason that there is such outrage about this is because using a choke-hold like that is against the rules in place. I'm no cop-basher. I realize that they are dealing with unique, dangerous situations all the time, and that they don't have the luxury of taking as much time to consider their options as I do to even write this comment.<br /><br />But this situation, from all appearances, was not particularly dangerous to the police. And there was no evident need for urgency. Yes, the guy shouldn't have resisted arrest, and some kind of manhandling may have been inevitable in order to bring him under control. But he was clearly not a threat to run. There were multiple officers. The aggressiveness with which he was taken down and kept down just seemed out of proportion to what was necessary.<br /><br />The SCC asks “Protests Over What Exactly?” That's a pretty simple question to answer. However you slice it, a guy is dead because of police intervention to stop him from selling loose cigarettes. That's awful, whether somebody deserves to go to jail for it, or not. Resisting arrest and his general health status certainly were large factors. But, in a better world, this could have gone differently, and the victim would still be alive.<br /><br />Whether the officer's actions rise to the level of manslaughter in New York, I don't know. But I agree with Caren, above, that "the quickest change would be to appoint a special prosecutor to every case of police killing." Whatever one thinks about this case, the prosecutors essentially doubling as defense lawyers in situations like this and providing a police officer with consideration that would not be granted to civilians challenges one's belief in the fairness of the judicial process. <br /><br />As to today's post, one might hope that communities wouldn't be left with the stark choice between "racist police" and "ignorant thugs." But the e-mails were certainly both compelling and well worth sharing.Jakashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-53518640904759705212014-12-09T10:13:59.550-06:002014-12-09T10:13:59.550-06:00While this is a legitimate issue and I know the Fo...While this is a legitimate issue and I know the Fox News crowd will say anything to try to take attention off of it, I'm sad to see how much oxygen this is sucking out of the broader discussion about African-Americans in our country. If tomorrow every policeman treated African-American suspects as they treat white suspects, would there be a huge dip in the insane weekly murder/death counts? Would African-American unemployment go down? (Here's something that most media didn't mention while reporting November's spectacular job numbers: African-American unemployment ---rose---). Even in this debate, how little discussion there has been about drug laws and mandatory sentences. Because our laws are designed to contain drugs to an acceptable extent so as not to disrupt white teenage lives, and if poor African-Americans have to pay the price, so be it. The debate has mostly been just about how "open season" the enforcement can be. <br /><br />There's low hanging fruit here - police lapel cameras are proven to improve police-suspect interactions on both sides. Even if they didn't work in the Garner case (though at least they'll help ensure his family some financial support), that should happen immediately. Pot should be legalized, or at least only penalized on the buying side. But for every minute we talk about such things we should be spending ten minutes talking about JOBS. And enough conflating African-Americans with "minorities" - African-Americans are not Hispanics, they are not decendents of poor Eastern Europeans, they are not refugees from the Vietnam War. Our nation has a historic obligation to help African-Americans get to rough economic parity with the nation in general. If we start there, a lot of the rest will follow.Anon-not-Anonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-11339970521878517032014-12-09T10:10:28.826-06:002014-12-09T10:10:28.826-06:00In studying psychology I learned that cops are sub...In studying psychology I learned that cops are sublimated criminals. Think about it - the same type of person likes to play cops and robbers without regard to which side he is on. The difference in real life depends on how an individual is raised - the nurture side of nature or nurture determining who we become, cops or criminals. But in the adrenaline and testosterone fueled moments of the cop/lawbreaker encounter nature reigns supreme and the crisis often ends badly. Racial attitudes and culture are secondary but powerful motivaters. Shining a spotlight on the problem is essential before the necessary process of changing behaviors can begin. Bravo to the peaceful demonstraters for stepping up to overcome our apathy!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-901511310227242072014-12-09T09:34:41.397-06:002014-12-09T09:34:41.397-06:00Coincidentally, I'm just reading that portion ...Coincidentally, I'm just reading that portion of The Town & the City (by Jack Kerouac) in which paterfamilias George Martin is berating his son over the "anomie" of present day youth...in 1944. I don't know yet what happens to Peter Martin, but I do know that those of my father's generation who survived the war, also survived the anomie presumably caused by the war, the preceding depression and the prevalent drug (including alcohol) use of the day. So there's hope. I don't see these incidents as helping bring the black and white communities closer, but you never know.<br />Johntatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06215684866966011198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-67569603562695132352014-12-09T08:59:10.917-06:002014-12-09T08:59:10.917-06:00Here's a thought Jerry, you want to run things...Here's a thought Jerry, you want to run things, start your own blog. My blog, my rules. If threatening to withdraw your light is supposed to wreck my day, it doesn't. As my mother used to sing in the USO, "Got along without 'cha before I met-cha, gonna get along without cha now."Neil Steinberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468057838260476480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-14903188031959648882014-12-09T07:16:33.837-06:002014-12-09T07:16:33.837-06:00The quickest change would be to appoint a special ...The quickest change would be to appoint a special prosecutor to every case of police killing. <br /><br />The local prosecutors rely on the police to make their cases. They know them and can't afford to antagonize them. It's a clear conflict of interest.<br /><br />The AP has all of the Ferguson testimony available online. Thousands of pages, and an incredible display of the prosecution acting as a defense for Darren Wilson.<br /><br />Both cases deserved public trials to determine the facts. Instead, the police killed men and will face no consequences. <br /><br />There should be a law that special prosecutors must be appointed to every cop killing.Carennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-39590655132334064962014-12-09T07:02:28.022-06:002014-12-09T07:02:28.022-06:00What's interesting is neither the police offic...What's interesting is neither the police officers (and their supporters) or the supporters of the two black victims believe the actions taken by their side in these incidents were wrong, out of bounds. The cultures behind both points of view supports their reasoning. Two very different worlds indeed.WendyChttp://twitter.com/WendyCCHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-88193886928629837062014-12-09T01:38:59.255-06:002014-12-09T01:38:59.255-06:00In THE ART OF WAR Sun Tzu opines that if a general...In THE ART OF WAR Sun Tzu opines that if a general actually has to fight he has half lost already. Ferguson was probably unavoidable. NYC was probably AVOIDABLE. Of course there is no moral parity between the police and the thugs. But then again the police are the professionals. At times they must act on instinct and training. But if there is time to think – as there appeared to be in the Garner case – then they should exhaust non-violent strategies before resorting to the violent stuff. <br /><br />Police -- like undertakers and divorce lawyers-- appear at the sad end of things. By the time they show up it is often only a matter of a bad outcome or a very bad outcome.<br /><br />If society wants to help but is constrained by limited resources – then the question is how to get the most bangs for its buck. So will it be millions upon millions for technological gimmicks and mickey-mouse training for the police? Or will it be millions upon millions for education for the young?<br /><br />I ask – what is the single change that can bring the fastest results? That is within several years rather than several decades. My answer is school vouchers given to parents along with encouraging private schools to open and operate with the autonomy now given to Catholic grammar and high schools. <br /><br />This will immediately empower parents. This will quickly empower teachers. This will quickly empower students to be free of the few dregs that drag down the class.<br /><br />The only legitimate concern is the optimal speed of such a transition. Of course it cannot be overnight or even over one or two years. But the transition should be substantially complete over five or six years. And of course the traditional public school should remain one option.<br /><br />JerryBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-34458274622044839132014-12-09T00:30:50.616-06:002014-12-09T00:30:50.616-06:00Cops are racist murdering thugs who ALL need to be...Cops are racist murdering thugs who ALL need to be imprisoned for life. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-21067254669325197712014-12-09T00:25:34.077-06:002014-12-09T00:25:34.077-06:00Here's what I get from my occasion descent int...Here's what I get from my occasion descent into the Hell of Second City Cop.<br />1. They can't spell to save their lives. I guess this is a reflection of the shitty Chicago Public Schools that so many went to.<br />2. The incredible hatred of so many of their commanders. The vitriol aimed at the various district commanders, let alone the hatred of every single superintendent, except for ones that rose through the CPD ranks & who are the ones that let the department run out of control. According to them, every district commander is a political pile of shit & often a gang member or sleeping with a gang member.<br />They always have some really stupid & childish nickname for the superintendents.<br />3. The casual racism they espouse. That includes those that identify as black.Clark St.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09634234069783123180noreply@blogger.com