tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post5049221394295653979..comments2024-03-18T21:09:10.627-05:00Comments on Every goddamn day: 03/19/24: Women and religion, pt. IINeil Steinberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11468057838260476480noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-28976485689317033592017-11-16T16:21:48.991-06:002017-11-16T16:21:48.991-06:00What you're missing is that Neil prefaced the ...What you're missing is that Neil prefaced the letter with his regret that there wasn't room in the original column to include a statement that religion often enriches a woman's life. The point of her letter was to make that statement and Neil was kind enough to allow her words to fill the void. I'm not defending Christianity, I'm defending Gayle's words. Tony Galatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11944671504245191140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-42646923315669551532017-11-16T15:50:19.236-06:002017-11-16T15:50:19.236-06:00Tony--To say "there is a problem with the beh...Tony--To say "there is a problem with the behavior of some 'Christians'" is to severely understate the case. Those "some Christians" include bishops, cardinals, conference presidents, "prophets" and other high-ranking officials. And the "behavior" in question goes far beyond the occasional lech putting his hands where they don't belong. As Neil set forth in his original column on this subject, Christianity, along with most other major religions, has been systematically interpreted in a way that leads to ongoing oppression of women. Saying "well, Jesus wasn't sexist" is really beside the point. It's like rationalizing the horrors of Stalinism by saying that Karl Marx never advocated mass murder.Bitter Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645909858616987997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-13224751391928127472017-11-16T14:40:16.104-06:002017-11-16T14:40:16.104-06:00This is indeed a well-written response to Monday&#...This is indeed a well-written response to Monday's column, and Ms. Woody makes a fine case for the radical approach the Gospels indicate that Christ took in acknowledging women.<br /><br />However, Neil's column didn't address the Gospels, per se, or the teachings or actions of J. C., himself. His brief remarks with regard to the Judeo-Christian tradition at the beginning of the column were limited to Genesis.<br /><br />She states: "I am a child of God, the Creator of the Universe," while declining to indicate which particular denomination she might belong to. Which is fine, but the difference between the Gospels and the institutional expression of Christianity in today's world is critical.<br /><br />Neil's main point was: "Organized religion, despite progress by liberal wings, is still a powerful bulwark of institutionalized repression."<br /><br />Essentially, Caren Tarvin and Bitter Scribe nailed it in their opening comments.Jakashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-31232894266354740832017-11-16T14:18:52.475-06:002017-11-16T14:18:52.475-06:00Also explored, if not so dramatically, by Anthony ...Also explored, if not so dramatically, by Anthony Trollope in several novels, particularly those inhabited by various clergymen and their wives and daughters. Trollope himself, as Tom is certainly aware, was sympathetic to the doomed aspirations of intelligent and talented women, but accepted the mores of his time that relegated them to inferiority and powerlessness.<br /><br />johntatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088632798195131329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-55230291382809279692017-11-16T13:35:52.751-06:002017-11-16T13:35:52.751-06:00I don't understand why Caren and Scribe have a...I don't understand why Caren and Scribe have a problem with Gayle defending "true Christianity". In the preceding paragraph she admits that there is a problem with the behavior of some "Christians" who don't understand what Christianity is. I think she did a remarkable job in making her point.<br />As for Clark -- I rarely understand what the hell you're talking about.Tony Galatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11944671504245191140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-42987612902074293932017-11-16T12:04:41.611-06:002017-11-16T12:04:41.611-06:00The December edition of The Atlantic (Conservatism...The December edition of The Atlantic (Conservatism Without Bigotry p. 11) makes a interesting point: progressives' ideas progress; therefore, ideas presently acceptable are quite likely to appear reactionary to progressives 5 or 10 years from now. So perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on people who haven't caught up with us yet, assuming good faith and good intentions. The nasties always deserve a hard time of course. <br /><br />john<br />tatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088632798195131329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-7782338238447652912017-11-16T10:09:27.092-06:002017-11-16T10:09:27.092-06:00Of course Jesus wasn't sexist, because if you ...Of course Jesus wasn't sexist, because if you never existed, you can't be seaxist, or anything for that matter!Clark St.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09634234069783123180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-5017672850562701942017-11-16T09:32:51.598-06:002017-11-16T09:32:51.598-06:00I suppose a case can be made for Jesus being somet...I suppose a case can be made for Jesus being something of a feminist, but then there is Saint Paul, who may have been more influential dogmatically, at least on matters of sex and gender.<br /><br />How Christ's teachings can conflict with the ways of the world was explored dramatically by Dostoevsky, in the Grand Inquisitor segment of "The Brothers Karamazov." Ivan dreams that Christ returned to earth during the height of the Inquisition and after some successful public appearances is taken into custody. The old Grand Inquisitor determines that his teachings give men more freedom than they can handle and so are heretical. He is to be burnt at the stake, but the Inquisitor relents after he promises to drop from public sight.<br /><br />Tom Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09641357239788323783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-31657832587048292732017-11-16T09:22:16.628-06:002017-11-16T09:22:16.628-06:00You beat me to it. As nice and sincere as this lad...You beat me to it. As nice and sincere as this lady seems, this is indeed an example of "No True Scotsman." If you take the original teachings of Mohammad, Buddha or any founder of any major religion, I'm sure you could make the same case--he (it's always he) was perfectly kind and proper towards women. There are too many examples of repression under Christianity to handwave away under the "not true Christianity" rationalization.Bitter Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645909858616987997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-52796830501730260092017-11-16T08:55:23.577-06:002017-11-16T08:55:23.577-06:00She makes an excellent point. Thanks for sharing.She makes an excellent point. Thanks for sharing.Privatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757585399827295128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-88809610790750253852017-11-16T08:29:19.239-06:002017-11-16T08:29:19.239-06:00I agree, although I might phrase it "many who...I agree, although I might phrase it "many who *claim* to practice Christianity." Coeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06130250489695215525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-86766838343739630962017-11-16T08:01:16.971-06:002017-11-16T08:01:16.971-06:00Neil's writing takes us places we wouldn't...Neil's writing takes us places we wouldn't ordinarily go, and today's column is a fine example of one of his finer qualities: his ego isn't driving the bus. <br /><br />Gayle Barker Woody makes an excellent point that "Christian means Christ-like." Many who practice Christianity are lousy Christians. They've lost sight of their Savior while gazing into a mirror.Tony Galatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11944671504245191140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-31741765909729050602017-11-16T06:56:54.294-06:002017-11-16T06:56:54.294-06:00but the Church erecting an institution upon this f...but the Church erecting an institution upon this foundation is the very definition of institutional repression. many christians maybe most adhere to the basic foundational teachings of Jesus to do good. too many, even if its just a few use his word to enrich themselves at the expense of others. even the most basic language: sheep, flock, speaks of the hierarchal , patriarchal notions embedded in this religion, be it catholic or protestant. I'm happy for people who find comfort in faith . I'm appalled by people who use faith to take advantage of others. I believe in god. its men who trouble me.FMEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06829632906445535928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3972382144120426476.post-52833008099636690282017-11-16T06:50:35.929-06:002017-11-16T06:50:35.929-06:00She misses the point. Yes. Jesus was not sexist. ...She misses the point. Yes. Jesus was not sexist. But Christian institutions? Absolutely and intentionally. There's no "No True Scotsman"-ing it.<br /><br />I'm glad she finds peace in her faith. Most of the practitioners, especially those in political power or those running hospitals are repressive.Caren Tarvinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17652372965671115486noreply@blogger.com