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| Cain killing Abel, by Johann Sadeler (Metropolitan Museum of Art) |
I initially declined an invitation to talk with the new Israeli consul general to the Midwest, Elad Strohmayer. Consuls general are not traditionally fonts of valuable information. But Tuesday is the second anniversary of the Oct. 7 attacks that cost 1,200 Israeli lives and the beginning of the war in Gaza that has killed 67,000 Palestinians and spurred a worldwide shift against Israel.
With nations lining up to recognize a Palestinian state, and social media echoing with full-throated condemnation of Israel's continuation of the war, I felt obligated to hear what the nation's officials have to say. This interview was done before President Trump's 20-point peace plan was unveiled, but with talks going on in Egypt now, the Israeli position is even more relevant. Our interview was edited for space and clarity.
Q. What's happening in Gaza? What are you doing?
A. Our goals are very, very simple. We want the hostages back, and we want Hamas to lay down its arms so it would never be able to threaten Israel. ... We cannot end the war knowing that Hamas is still in power or Hamas has the ability to threaten Israel. That's why we're operating in Gaza now.
Q. Why doesn't Hamas surrender? Wouldn't that end the bloodshed?
A. That's a question you need to ask Hamas. The reality is that they have a murderous ideology, and that ideology was known from the start, and they are very, very persistent in sticking to this ideology. They actually care nothing for the life of people in general — Palestinian life, Israeli life, Jewish life. Their murderous ideology is not going anywhere. That's why they're not surrendering. I might not be able to fight their ideology, because ideas are very strong. I just want to make sure that their ideology doesn't have the military power to threaten Israel.
Q. You've got Donald Trump talking about exiling Palestinians from Gaza and building a new Riviera. What's going to happen to the Palestinians?
A. I speak for the Israeli government. I don't speak for President Trump and his administration, but I think his plan is being mischaracterized. He doesn't want to exile all the Palestinians. The reality is we want to have as minimum casualties in Gaza fighting against Hamas. Look at what's happening in Ukraine. Ukrainian people could leave and go to neighboring countries. Why doesn't Egypt allow Palestinians to go into Egypt so we can do what needs to be done to clear Gaza of Hamas? Then anyone who wants to go back can go back. Prime Minister Netanyahu said it: We want to give them the opportunity to leave so they'll be out of harm's way, then anyone who wants to be back can come back. I'm saying this on the record.
Q. Let's talk about the famine.
Yes, there are hungry people in Gaza. It breaks my heart to know there are hungry people in Gaza. But there is no systematic famine in Gaza. That's the campaign against Israel. We made sure from the start that enough humanitarian assistance, enough food, enters into Gaza that there won't be famine in Gaza. But Hamas looted the food, the food was not distributed to the right people, and that's what created hungry people in Gaza. ... I don't want to see hungry people in Gaza. It's not moral, and it's also wrong for Israel. Everybody's talking about the famine in Gaza. But again, nobody talks about the famine of our hostages. ... The famine campaign is false.
Q. Is the two-state solution still viable?
A. A Palestinian state is not relevant at the moment. It's a futile conversation to talk about a Palestinian state, because we need to make sure that if there is going to be, eventually — some political entity — that won't be able to threaten Israel. We're not there yet. They don't recognize Israel as the homeland of all Jews. If we now create a Palestinian state, we have the fear extremists will take over that future so-called Palestinian state and then they will be able to do to central Israel from the West Bank what they did on Oct. 7.
Q. Talk about the PR war. You've got a terror group. You've got America's closest ally, a democracy. Why is public perception so strong against Israel? What you call an "operation" is denounced as genocide.
A. I reject that term. The only one that wants to create a genocide is Hamas. They said that from the beginning. They want to kill all the Jews and throw us to the sea, that there should be no Jewish state. They're the one that tried to commit a genocide Oct. 7. ... The claims that we are committing genocide are preposterous, and they are false. These are lies being spread against Israel. On Oct. 7, Israel was attacked. But also on Oct. 7, an orchestrated campaign against Israel was started worldwide. If we wanted to commit a genocide we would not let humanitarian aid be distributed. We would not let people be notified before the [Israeli military] is going to be striking.
Palestinians are suffering in Gaza. I am not oblivious to their suffering. On the contrary. My heart aches when I see pictures of children suffering. But the reality is, this is the outcome of war. We don't have a good PR. Justice is on our side, but the pictures coming out of Gaza are difficult. I understand. But who's responsible for these pictures? Hamas.
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Neil,
ReplyDeleteThanks for talking with Elad Strohmayer. It’s important to hear the views of the Israeli Consul General.
Having said that, I think it’s also important to call BS on much of what he said. There has been a clear and dominant consensus that Hamas is a terrorist organization and their deadly attack in October 2023 was horrific.
However, it is beyond difficult to believe Israeli claims that the famine in Gaza is almost exclusively the fault of Hamas. There are too many reports from independent observers about the condition of Gaza residents and about Israeli attacks on journalists and aid workers (almost always followed by a very sincere apology that Israeli snipers didn’t mean to shoot people waiting to get a little food ).
Last week, Israel intercepted the Global Sumud flotilla, a coalition of more than 40 vessels carrying humanitarian aid whose goal was to breach Israel’s 16-year maritime blockade of Gaza.
Between Thursday and Friday, Israeli forces intercepted all the boats and arrested every crew member onboard. Most of them are being held at Ketziot, also known as Ansar III, a high-security prison in the Negev desert used primarily to detain Palestinian security prisoners, many of whom Israel accuses of involvement in militant or terrorist activities. There have also been credible reports of mistreatment of members of the flotilla, including Greta Thunberg. How does Mr. Strohmayer square his pious declaration that he doesn’t want to see hungry people in Gaza with continued Israeli obstruction of humanitarian aid?
Thanks again for publishing this interview. However, it’s long past time that Israeli officials stop trying to paint the outrage against the crimes they have committed against the people of Gaza as a PR problem.
Jerry L
I don't disagree with you. But it's also long past time we stop considering Palestinians as children with no free will or responsibility for their own situation. If Israelis are such murderous maniacs, was attacking them on Oct. 7 a good idea? You'll have a hard time finding a Palestinians who'd say "no." Remember, killing innocent people IS the Palestinian strategy. You can't accept it in the one and not the other.
DeleteIt’s also clearly become the strategy of Netanyahu’s IDF.
DeleteThe amount of "aid" on that ludicrous PR campaign by that insane teen Jew hater Thunberg couldn't feed 100 people for more than a day!
DeleteThat entire thing was a pathetic joke!
Neil and Jerry L,
DeleteI want to thank you both. Your retorts are both excellent and do an excellent job of distilling my feelings and opinions. Additionally you both do so without insults. If we had more conversations like yours, this world would be much better place.
thank you both.
You are correct, Neil. And Jerry S., maybe it's time to call PS on some of the things the Amer. Palest. spokesman in the area said on the page after Neil's column in the paper.
Delete"But it's also long past time we stop considering Palestinians as children with no free will or responsibility for their own situation.......Remember, killing innocent people IS the Palestinian strategy." Thank you for saying that.
DeleteJerry- Everything in today's world is nothing more than a marketing branding problem. Everything. Hear it everyday from everyone. Sickening!
DeleteYes its long past time to stop considering Palestinians as children . Prior to the October 7th attack the conditions imposed upon Gaza by the Israelis was far worse than treating them as children. They were treated as prisoners without the rights we consider sacred. no liberty , no self determination .
ReplyDeleteIt was not only Israel that was responsible for this circumstance. Most Arab nations and western powers perpetuated this circumstance . Prior to 1948 there were maybe 250,000 people living in Palestine . some of them were Jewish. today a combined population of over 10,000,000 peoplestuggle to live together in this area.
Allowing the Palestinian people to be used as pawns by countries intent on the destruction and annihilation of Israel and the Jewish citizens of this country then blaming all their suffering on the Israelis is an abomination.
It has been attempted several times to establish a Palestinian entity. They either self sabotage , or regional powers act to defeat this premise . Because a two state solution would require many to accept the legitimacy of a Jewish state. So there is no Palestinian state and the conflict continues. The Palestinian people bear the brunt of it and hamas retains power. a very cynical strategy by the regional players and it gets blamed on the Israelis .
All for the purpose of eventually destroying Israel . Wrapped in the trappings of religion.
Hopefully Israel will emerge victorious in this war then do everything in its power to establish a coalition to rebuild gaza as a sovereign nation whose constitution is based on peaceful coexistence.
Pretty unrealistic huh?
The first gasp of air and the accompanied acrid swallow following vomiting are burned into my mind. It is the first thing that comes to mind when someone says "that left a bad taste in my mouth." Perhaps it will be supplanted by the Durian fruit, but so far, the burning taste of bile reigns supreme.
ReplyDeleteBesides my disdain for politicians who wear lapel pins (though it does make it easier to see which lobby has bought them), there is something about Elad's responses that doesn't sit right with me; leaving that bad taste in my mouth.
I have no doubt that much of my opinion is formed from relationships I have with Israelis, the current propaganda networks that is the American news media, and the seemingly endless supply of corrupt political leaders both here and in Israel, but I just don't feel like they're honest. How can you say the things he said and then talk about tikun olumn?
All the stories i was told as a child about how Israeli soldiers treated even the enemy's trees with compassion during the six day war seem to have turned to ash in my mouth.
It's amazing to me how similar the netanyahoo regime is to our Grand Old Phascists. How far we've come from the 1950s.
And as I've said before, I struggle with the genocide aspect. Is this a genocide? It is wrong and abhorrent, but is it a genocide? Do I need concentration camps filled with Muslims in order to convince myself that it is in fact genocide? What makes a palastinian different than a Sunni or a Shia? whats the difference between a Syrian and a Jordanian? What would an ethnic cleansing of Egypt look like? Is this conversation happening appropriately? Why was there so little conversation about Syrian genocide or Turkish Genocide, or Russian Genocide when compared with Israel? Is it because of the Jews?
I don't understand enough. I know I don't get it. I know that I am wrong in many ways. But I also know that i can't really take Elad Stronhmayer's comments at face value. And that to me, is a major problem.
Nothing, either in America or in the Middle East, will change for the better until both the "Net-and-yahoo" regime and our own Grand Old Phascists have been deposed.
DeleteBoth situations are only going to get much worse. America is not my America anymore, and Israel is definitely not the land of milk and honey my parents promised me. It's now the land of blood and (American) money.
Today's Sun-Times in running Neil's interview with the Israeli consul paired with a statement from a Hamas spokesman goes a long way towards leveling the playing field. One more often hears the unbelievable explanations from the government of Israel alone and separately from those protesting Israeli actions, whereas today the disparate effusions demonstrate that while Israel may be crazy, the Palestinians are totally insane with absolutely no contact with reality. As Mike Royko used to say,
ReplyDelete"You can believe everything that politicians say ... as long as they're talking about the other guy."
I dont believe Hatem Abudayyeh of the U.S. Palestinian Community Network is a spokesman for hamas . though he does seem out of touch with reality
DeleteI come to this discussion late in the day, but I hope not too late to say after reading your interview and the other one with Mr. Abudayyeh something really jumped out to me that seems important. Isn't it foolish for Elad Strohmayer to suggest that "it can all end today" if Hamas would surrender, lay down their arms and release the hostages in light of Mr. Abudayyeh's description of Hamas as the largest and most powerful of the Palestinian resistance organizations but not the only one? Not the only one by a long shot I suspect. I suppose it all depends on what the goals are. If they are to return to the status of October 6, 2023 minus Hamas who will be satisfied with that?
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that Greta T. is being mistreated by the Israelis. Wonder who is funding her.
ReplyDeleteStick with environmental concerns, Greta.
ReplyDelete