 |
| "Coming through the Rye," by Frederic Remington (Art Institute of Chicago) |
Black women have a higher suicide rate than white women. Rich or poor, doesn't matter — Black women in the highest income bracket kill themselves 20% more often than white women in the lowest.
When they do, they generally use handguns — most U.S. suicides are with handguns, because guns are such efficient killing machines.
This kept flashing in my mind reading Bob Chiarito's piece in Wednesday's Sun-Times, "Surprised Kamala Harris owns a gun?" This is not a criticism of Bob's article. He recounts the stories of real Chicago women who purchase guns to feel more secure and talks to a gun safety instructor, who says that of her 3,000 students, none has ever had to use her gun. He mentions the risks.
Rather, I am writing to air the other half of the equation Bob cites only in passing. Guns get great PR in America. Yes, there is the increasingly muted horror at increasingly common school shootings. Some obscure town is projected into the news, parents race to the scene, terrified kids rush out with their hands on their heads. It all fades in a day.
How can that compete with Clint Eastwood? "Dirty Harry?" The movie opened on Christmas 1971, and more than half a century later, we all know the message: The man — or woman — with the gun gets the drop on the bad guys. "Go ahead, make my day." Add all those surveillance videos of robbers getting gunned down on X. We never see videos of kids shooting each other.
I don't want to ignore the value of guns as comfort objects. You may live in a dangerous area. You have a gun locked in a drawer, it gives you a sense of security. I live in quiet, safe Northbrook, am neither Black nor a woman. Who am I to have an opinion on this? To call guns "teddy bears with bullets?"
Well, someone whose job it is, in part, to warn people of perils they might otherwise overlook. If you buy a gun, the chances of you, or your family, being killed by a gun jump. Yes, you tell yourself, if you hear someone breaking in, you can calmly go and unlock the drawer and protect yourself until the police come.
But what if that break-in never happens? What about the rest of the time? Years and years? That gun sits there and is a menace only to the people in the vicinity — aka, you and your loved ones. You might have a dark night of the soul you never anticipated and use it on yourself. Or you might leave the drawer unlocked and your overly inquisitive nephew finds it.
To continue reading, click here.
I don't fault people for owning guns. I do hope that anyone who does has taken classes to know how to properly care for it and use it.
ReplyDeleteI also hope that the individual meets with a regular group to train, practice, and learn. Not just with their firearm, but as a person. Know the rules, the laws, the requirements, and practice them. For something like a well regulated militia.
However, there seem to be a very vocal group who claim guns are to protect them. And while I respect their opinion I can't help but think how misguided that is. Guns are only useful if you are brandishing it and know what to do with it. If someone sneaks up on you, has a gun, out numbers you, or (like the government) has something better than a gun, yours won't protect you.
I'm not advocating for the removal of guns in society, i think that would result in much worse times (even if just for a moment). What i am advocating for is the understanding that there are about 1,000 steps to take and things to do to prevent the situation where you need (or think you need) to use a gun. Let's invest heavily in those things. Let's better society and help our neighbors and fellow Americans so that we don't need to worry about our safety so much so that in our misguided attempt to protect ourselves ends up becoming the very thing that makes us unsafe.
excellent article, Neil.
Mr. Steinberg sir, with all due respect.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't want to own a gun, you don't have to. There is never a circumstance where you are forced to purchase and possess a firearm
In so far as that gun that is locked in a drawer somewhere I and many thousands of others have a concealed carry permit which means I have my weapon with me. I can touch it right now with my hand. it is loaded. I don't have to go anywhere to get it.
I assume that everyone I encounter is also carrying a firearm. I treat them with the ultimate of respect which I am trying also Mightily to give you.
I do not have a fantasy about this firearm. I've taken extensive training and have no intention of ever using this weapon
Last year my wife attempted to kill herself but she was not able to access a firearm in our home and did not succeed. She is not a black woman. But if she chose to go and purchase a handgun on her own, she could .As it should be. There would be a background check and a 3-day waiting period and she probably would be allowed to purchase one even with her mental illness history. In my opinion People should be allowed to own guns in the United States of America. You can disagree with that. But as I said you can make the choice not to.
If my wife would have successfully killed herself with a handgun that she purchased. I would not feel responsible for that act, nor would I think the gun manufacturers were responsible for an act that she engaged in upon her own volition
I appreciate your concern for your fellow citizens. I understand how upsetting it is that so many people are irresponsible with firearms and that it's such a difficult issue to resolve
I believe that I'm doing my part by being an ultra responsible gun owner. I understand I am only responsible for my own behavior. At one time the onus was on me to make sure that my children were safe from harm and now that they are grown adults I feel I was successful . There were no firearm accidents in my home and none of my children have used a firearm to harm anyone or themselves.to to to! They also are trained in the use and handling of firearms .I believe all
people should have gun safety training and there should be check-ins from a policing body to make sure that people are acting responsibly
But short of removing firearms from society completely. We're only going to make a tiny difference in the number of people who are injured or killed with public service messages, though I do appreciate yours
Do you support Draconian restriction of firearms by ordinary citizens? Or are you simply suggesting that the best decision a person can make is to not own a firearm?
I can't get behind the former but I can easily support the latter
The latter — the best decision a person can make is, in most cases, not to own a firearm. I have an FOID card and have gone shooting, many times. But I wouldn't keep a gun in the house for the reasons I outline. I just believe people should be aware of the facts. We need education, not laws. For instance: your email makes me wonder whether a person who owns a gun and whose wife has already tried to kill herself can be considered a responsible gun owner. What risk are you warding off with that gun, and how does that compare to the reality of your wife's situation? Not to pry; I'm not asking for an answer. I'm asking for you to think about it.Thanks for writing in such a clear and coherent way. Not every gun advocate does.
DeleteThank you for your considerate reply. My now ex-wife lives many hundreds of miles away. But I'd like to return to the premise of your article. Suicide
DeleteI believe that this issue is much more addressable than the out of hand gun culture in America. All it takes is resources to reduce the number of suicides. All the money in the world is not going to solve the problem with guns
So there is clearly some overlap.
If people with mental health issues were able to access adequate care and proper medication, far fewer people would experience the desperation that leads A person to suicide.
Even people and families like mine that could support and provide and for care
For the troubled individual have difficulty accessing care that's effective even in the private sector.
What on Earth can you do about the destitute the unhoused the traumatized? Young people especially need treatment. And responsible people surrounding them Who understand how important it is to keep them away from firearms
I have to agree with Neil that Steve presented his pro gun arguments in a "clear and coherent way." Which makes them all the more reprehensible in my view -- Steve presents himself as a rational caring upstanding citizen, whereas his views further a serious and evidently insoluble problem that threatens the viability of society today. I have to disagree with Neil, however, as to his assertion that we need education, not laws. We desperately need laws limiting, if not abolishing, the right to possess and carry deadly weapons. And we're not even minutely likely to get such laws any time soon or ever. It would be nice if all gun owners were as well trained and knowledgable as Steve, but even if they all were, the problem would remain at least to the extent that Black women would be dying from gun violence at a much greater rate than white women and mass shooting would still occur regularly with the usual political reaction of "thoughts and prayers."
Deletejohn
It isn't that laws wouldn't be useful. It's that they're premature. I use smoking as my touchstone — another addictive feel good danger. First the public had be be made aware. THEN you could ban smoking in restaurants.
DeleteGuns are the number one cause of death of children in the United States. How much more do we need to be aware? A nation that accepts death of children as the price for unrestricted access to guns, is already lost.
DeleteCertainly an apt analogy. Watching old movies reminds me of the bad old days when smoking was so ubiquitous that a non smoker was the exception, not the rule. I hope firearms education is indeed that first tentative step towards "reasonable restrictions" at least.
Deletejohn
Tate
DeleteI respect your point of view and agree with it to some degree. Though the ad hominem attack calling me reprehensible also contributes to the hostilities surrounding this issue. My attempt to have a reasonable discussion about this should be respected
If as a nation we agreed to greatly restrict the right to own firearms, I would certainly follow that law as I do all others pertaining to the ownership of firearms.
I agree that this is unlikely to happen. It would require an amendment to the Constitution to completely clarify what rights are granted to the citizens
There's a second amendment being ambiguous and not contemporaneous is an enormous problem.
I asked our gracious host if he was in favor of some Draconian measure to restrict gun ownership. He said no. You say yes.
I am committed to following the laws of our country and I think it's a great idea that Neil puts forth for education.
I believe I suggested universal training in gun safety. With nearly 400 million guns already possessed by the population of this country, education is one of the only reasonable paths, but the laws are important and need to be enforced. It gauls me that our government does not prioritize punishment of illegal use of firearms
I'm not sure, but in many places the restrictions on suicide that criminalized it have been relaxed or abolished. So if you look deeply into this issue and realize that in many places it is legal to kill yourself with a legally possessed handgun
Steve writes: "It would require an amendment to the Constitution to completely clarify what rights are granted to the citizens."
DeleteI disagree that an amendment is necessary in order for any progress to be made. In the 2008 Heller ruling by the Supreme Court with regard to the Second Amendment, Antonin Scalia made clear that the right to bear arms was not unlimited.
"Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."
There are a number of common-sense regulations that are supported by the majority of Americans which could be enacted and probably pass review if not for the unreasonable opposition of the gun lobby. No guns were allowed inside the perimeter of the Republican convention, for example.
"I have my weapon with me. I can touch it right now with my hand. it is loaded." I appreciate that you are well-trained, but that still seems unnecessarily risky to me, given that you "have no intention of ever using this weapon."
"I assume that everyone I encounter is also carrying a firearm." That's a sad state of affairs for this country, which is quite the outlier among comparable nations in that regard. The fact that you're evidently fine with it is disturbing to me, however respectful and worthwhile your comments here have been. I'm pretty sure you won't be too concerned about my opinion, though! ; )
On the contrary, jakash I appreciate your ability to express yourself in a reasonable manner and I hear what you're saying
DeleteLast week when my son and I arrived home from work about 2:00 in the afternoon, he called me to say don't go near the windows. Dad, the building is surrounded by police and it looks like they're ready to shoot someone.
Of course had to look out the window and what I saw was remarkable. There were at least 30 officers, some plain clothes, some uniformed and at least a half a dozen from the SWAT team with Kevlar helmets and shields and actual automatic weapons.
They managed to apprehend one of the suspects very professionally and without incident in our neighbor's house. The police were in her yard, ours as well and the neighbors too. They ended up coming into our place to search for an additional suspect and once it was cleared they departed. There was a helicopter flying 300 ft above my house
When I go to work or more when I leave work later in the day the canine patrol is making its rounds. Someone was murdered at the corner less than a year ago and occasionally the police are asking about our cameras to see if we have any footage of other crimes that occur. I know my life is not a leafy suburban Paradise or anything approaching that I live in the inner city and when you need a weapon you can't say wait. I'm going to get it.
Some of the men I work with also carry and we try not to leave alone.
I try not to be too paranoid and not trying to play the hero I just have a life that can present some challenges.
I carry cash and would gladly give it up as well as my cell phone and anything else somebody asked for if all they want to do is rob me
If they could figure out how to get the guns away from criminals, none of this would be necessary
Your 1:53 comment certainly offers a significant amount of perspective to the previous ones, Steve.
Delete"I just have a life that can present some challenges" would seem to be an understatement. While I appreciate the calm, level-headed description of your situation and the recent events near and at your house, it still doesn't seem to me that folks in this country possessing "nearly 400 million guns" has done much to make neighborhoods like yours any safer. But I definitely have a better understanding of why you might choose to own a gun.
And I agree that, whatever one thinks of the issue, to "prioritize punishment of illegal use of firearms" would seem to be an important component.
Lat111,
DeleteAll may not be lost, yet. The statistics as used are a comparison of apples and oranges. Let's start with the Department of Transportation numbers. For the purpose of this fact sheet, children are defined as 14 years old and younger. Of the traffic fatalities in the United States, In 2021 child deaths were 1,200, and decreased to 1,129 in 2022.
Pediatricians track firearm deaths among children. Scroll down to table one, in the age row there are range brackets. I believe a fair comparison would be using 14 years old and younger. That would be 751 deaths in 2020 and 835 deaths in 2021. The disparity occurs when the 15-19 years old range is added in. The large jump in deaths is due to the gang shootings that occur in the older age bracket. Pediatricians don't have an agenda, They consider a typical person being fully adult at 20 years of age. For purposes of the criminal justice system murderers 15 and older are usually charged as an adult. If we are going to sensibly address these issues it would nice if politicians made clear what statistics are being used to determine the cause of the problems.
In the United States, citizens do not have unrestricted access to guns. To purchase a firearm you are required to fill out an ATF Form 4473, and wait 72 hours while they run a background check. For private sales at least in Illinois, to sell a firearm you are required to log into the State Police website and enter the purchasers FOID number and name. You can only sell them the firearm if their FOID is in good standing. In my opinion Illinois law is not too onerous and is common sense, I'd like to see more states follow Illinois' lead.
Grr, I don't know why Edge and Crome browsers considers the nhtsa.dot.gov website a security risk. I miss the old preview feature that allowed a commenter to verify the comment before publishing. For anyone who cares to see the "Department of Transportation numbers" you may try to copy the following link and paste it into the URL field:
Deletehttps://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813575#:~:text=For%20the%20purpose%20of%20this,14%20years%20old%20and%20younger.&text=Of%20the%2042%2C514%20traffic%20fatalities,were%20children%2014%20and%20younger.&text=Child%20traffic%20fatalities%20decreased%20by,)%20to%202022%20(1%2C129).
Thank you for this perspective, which I share.
ReplyDeleteMeh. And respectfully, you guys are woing.
ReplyDeleteI don't think "meh" and "respectfully" go well together.
DeleteGreat article and beautifully written as always. People should be more fully informed of the risks and stats when they are deciding on whether or not they should own firearms. So kudos to you for consistently bringing them to the conversation. All it takes is one bad night or one moment of lapsed judgment for an otherwise responsible owner to be one of those sad stories that we’ve all become immune to.
ReplyDeleteYears ago (like 40+ yrs ago) as a divorced mom I decided I needed a gun for protection. Before purchasing I went to the police dept. for their advice about what type of gun I should buy. I’ll never forget their response, “Lady, do you have any idea how many accidental shootings occur when friends and relatives are mistaken for intruders? Please just call us if you think you are in danger.” I don’t remember the statistics but I do remember being surprised by the high percentage of “mistaken identity” shootings.
ReplyDeleteOne of the saddest I remember is the father who shot his daughter who was coming up the stairs late at night. He forgot she was home from college.
DeleteRe: "meh" and "respectfully". The problem is with the formatting of comments. I can't add the paragraph break necessary to indicate that those were separate comments. "Meh" was my response to the tenor of their comment. "Respectfully" was my short, sweet and concise analysis of what was said. Of course, spelling it "woing" did me no favors.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it is a matter of risk assessment. I have a friend who has a concealed carry permit and does carry everywhere except his job, which he is not allowed. Even though he lives in a safe neighborhood and does not venture into "unsafe" areas. But he feels he needs to carry for his safety. This same individual has a motorcycle and refuses to wear a helmet. He also does not like wearing a seatbelt in his car or his work vehicle (Semi truck) I question his risk assessment. I have not looked up the statistics, but he is more likely to be involved in a crash than need his gun. But his risk assessment is obviously not the same as me.
ReplyDeleteLooks like some excellent comments here. Wife's dad (he died in '58) was a gun collector, and she doesn't want any firearms around. And I've never owned any guns, even though I've always wanted to, because I know I'm too unstable and crazy to have easy access to them. Will explain later.
ReplyDeleteApologies for the later being seven hours later. As I was typing earlier, I've never owned any guns, even though I've always wanted to, because I know I'm too unstable and crazy to have easy access to them.
DeleteSimply put: I'm too hot-tempered, and get pissed-off too easily. I was taking a break from yard work, and talking to my wife on the back porch, when I spotted two teen-agers slipping out of my yard, and carrying my boom box. I yelled at them to stop and they dropped the radio and began running. Probably saw the shiny object in my hand...a can of beer.
Had it been a gun, I'd have probably opened fire. That's how pissed I was. That was thirty years ago. I still get that way. I decided when I was ten that I didn't want kids. When I was an adult, I decided not to own a gun. Don't trust myself.
Years ago, a cop told me that the first thing thieves and druggies look for are the handguns, followed by cash and jewelry. They can easily sell all three, but you're also increasing the odds that you've just armed some glittery-eyed junkie burglar, and made him even more dangerous. And there's one more stolen gun on the mean streets.
He also told me that brandishing a weapon is extremely stupid and risky behavior...waving a gun around, instead of using it, will probably get you shot...either by a police officer or by an armed civilian.
Another reason I didn't want a gun around was that it would vastly increase the possibility that either my wife might one day decide to shoot me, or that I might use it on myself. Instead, I kept a "stash"...hundreds of pills...in my bottom drawer. Just add applesauce...and vodka.. Finally recycled the pills back to the clinic they came from. It felt exactly like getting rid of a gun.
Woke up to witness two home invaders climbing out of an upper window across the alley, and right into the arms of uniformed and plainclothes police, who were waiting to ventilate them. They wisely surrendered, and no shots were fired. That was in the mid-Eighties, in Ravenswood. Have to wonder how it would go down today. I once saw a Loop jeweler shoot a fleeing robber in the head. That was enough for a lifetime.
Have known two people who defended themselves with guns. One was a co-worker who shot and killed an armed intruder coming through the window of his Lakeview apartment. The other was a Marine combat veteran (three tours in Vietnam) who dispatched a man with a knife, after he kicked in the door of his Texas trailer. In both cases, they were asleep, and took care of business coolly and calmly.
The police ruled in both instances that they acted in self-defense, and both cases were justifiable homicides. They were commended for the swiftness of their actions. I have to wonder if I could ever do the same thing. There are knives and bats all over our house. We could still easily end up as toast.
I had a buddy in Lakeview who shot a guy coming through his window as well. My buddy was a fireman. I wonder if it's the same guy?
DeleteWas it near the "L" tracks...around Diversey or Wellington? Did someone, maybe a columnist, write about him in the Tribune? Was it in the 80s? I'm sue it's happened more than once. And did he kill the guy?
DeleteMight have been the same shooter, but the guy I knew wasn't a fireman. He worked for the Sun-Times at one point, and was an actor as well. So he was home sleeping during the late morning hours. Happened almost four decades ago. Oy, I'm getting so confoozed!
Yes, a long time ago. a fireman sleeping on an off day. Heard a noise. Picked up his pistol and hid in the closet a minute or two later. It's a guy. Opened the closet door and wound up with the crowbar He'd used to get in the window and the guy shot him twice in the chest. Somehow the guy managed to turn run and jump out the window where he died .at this time The cops had arrived because a kid next door had went in and told his mom. Hey, they're breaking into fireman Tommy's house. I can't say I remember exactly where this happened. Addison And Kenmore ?pretty close to the police station. Near the grammar school used to be pretty tough over there
DeleteKenmore ends at Waveland, right behind the Wrigley bleachers. Sounds like you're saying it was close to the Town Hall police station, and the nearby school. The one I remember was someplace south and west of that neighborhood, and closer to the "L" tracks, but your story sounds very similar.
DeleteAfter an incident when I was photographing in one of our forest preserves, my husband offered to give me a small gun he had and teach me how to used. He said I could keep it in my camera bag, but he warned that you have to be willing to kill someone. He said that if you draw a gun, you have to shoot it or they will take it out of your hand. I decided to stay out of forest preserves.
ReplyDeleteHe had a gun in a locked gun safe under the bed for home security, but he was well aware that if he heard someone trying to get in the house, by the time he got the gun safe out from under the bed, unlocked it, and loaded the gun, the offender would be in the house.
Later I once went with him shooting on a range. It all looks so easy on TV., but the horrific power of a hand gun is incredible. I can’t imaged what an AR 15 would feel like in your hand when you pulled the trigger. We all know what it does to the body of the victim.
When my husband died, I sold all the guns.
I owned a gun when I was about 12 years old. I went pheasant hunting with my father and did target practice with him using a pistol in the country. He wanted me to learn how to respect guns, not fear them. Every New Year's Eve he went out on our front porch and shot his 12 gauge shotgun into the air, which I thought was really cool. But, when I was 16, I went hunting with my older cousins, both raised on a farm. For "sport" they blew a rabbit to smithereens at pointblank range with a shotgun. I got rid of my gun after that gruesome event and have not owned or shot one since.
ReplyDeleteThen I moved from the country to Chicago and learned a whole different set of rules. Murder, not hunting, was the issue. I have been personally exposed to people hanging themselves with ropes or committing suicide by jumping in front of moving trains. Suicide is a mental desperation for which there is no easy remedy except therapeutic intervention. However, it bothers me that there are no laws preventing people from owning military grade weapons, which are so often used in mass killings. Those who argue that limiting the ownership of AK style rifles is unconstitutional, I argue back, where is the limit? No one can legally own a bazooka, a tank, or an atom bomb. My point is, that the "the right to bear arms" does have limitations.
And, if that were not enough reason to have more stringent gun laws, Neil makes a case (number cruncher that he is) , which is statistically proven, that most gun owners and their families are more likely to be victims of gun use than they are to protect themselves. Bravo to Neil for having the guts and wisdom to make that case.
Okay, speaking of owning a bazooka... That is my mental "go to" example whenever I'm reading debates over whether assault-style rifles should be allowed in the hands of civilians.
ReplyDeleteI assume (without actually verifying, but go with me here) that bazookas are not permitted for sale to the general public, but assault-style rifles are, so at some point, back in the mists of time, there must have been some kind of general agreement to put bazookas on THIS side of the demarcation line, and assault-style rifles on the other. The former are banned; the latter are not.
So, why is it so hard to perhaps move the dividing line somewhat, and add assault-style rifles to the same banned box of bazookas? I'm not seeking to muddy up the argument by including handguns, shotguns and the like, nor am I going to entertain the slippery-slope argument. Those weapons have a practical purpose in civilian life, whereas assault weapons seem to be simply the armament of choice in most recent shootings (both assassination attempts and mass murders), and we've got to start someplace.