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| "Expressman" by Norman Rockwell (Metropolitan Museum of Art) |
Most papers don't post them.
Not that the negative comments were uninteresting. They were, but in a bad way. You couldn't run a story about a 6-year-old getting hit by a bus without having the lad taunted in the comments. It was sad. To read them was to flip over a rock and expose the underside of human life, better left hidden.
Despite such drawbacks, I allow comments on my blog because they seem to encourage engagement, and vetting them is not particularly difficult. I get to answer reader questions. I often learn things — facts, ideas, perspectives, arguments. True, I have to read them, which takes time. Sometimes I'm torn whether something is so toxic and crazy that its entertainment value outweighs the unpleasantness of reading it.
I vet them rigorously. I don't want to let EGD devolve into a carnival of cruelty and snark. There is enough of that everywhere else.
But comments are valuable. They alert me to typos, errors, oversights — that's important in a one man show (though it really isn't; I have you).
Sometimes I get sucked into personalities. I try to avoid prima donas. Only room for one of those here, me. I don't mind people telling me I'm mistaken, more or less politely — if they're telling me I'm mistaken because I'm a idiot, well, bad enough that I have to read it, it's funny that someone would think I'd want to share the news on my own blog. I'm trying to hide the fact that I'm an idiot, not ballyhoo it.
Sometimes I just don't feel like having a topic explored. The Israeli policy on hanging Palestinians seems patently racist, mind-boggling and grotesque, but that doesn't mean I want someone to expound upon it at length under an unrelated post. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for a certain topic. It's my show, and I can call the tunes.
Sometimes I just don't feel like having a topic explored. The Israeli policy on hanging Palestinians seems patently racist, mind-boggling and grotesque, but that doesn't mean I want someone to expound upon it at length under an unrelated post. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for a certain topic. It's my show, and I can call the tunes.
To post or not is a spot judgment call. Sometimes I delete a remark and immediately regret it — sometimes it's a slip of the hand, honestly. I don't like out-of-the-blue comments, but sometimes an unrelated comment is valuable. Under yesterday's Ozempic post, a reader complained about these bothersome McAfee ads that pop up on the paper's web site. I asked him to send me an email, and, full-service columnist that I am, forwarded it to the paper's CEO and the editor-in-chief. Both responded — we value our readers — and said that this is a real issue, that other people have complained, including staffers, that solutions were being discussed in meetings, and they were on it. So hurrah for us, right?
Sometimes readers will be inspired to go on in-depth personal reminiscences — we're mostly old, remember — and I tend to post those, though I'm not sure what they add to the conversation. When I reflect on my past, I begin by assuming, correctly, that nobody but nobody cares what happened to me, and I have to find a way to slather on enough art to make them care. Others give it a shot, with varying degrees of success, and I don't see a reason not to share them.
Lately, when people sign up, in my little note thanking them, I invite the new readers to comment — sincerely. I do appreciate people taking the time to read, and to comment, and feel a piece has resonated when it gets 20 or 30 comments and not just two or three. If you haven't commented yet, please do. It's fun, apparently.
There have been, since the blog began in 2013, exactly 4,878 posts, and over 60,000 comments. Or an average of about a dozen comments per post. That isn't bad. The record, I believe, is my ill-starred 2023 introduction to Aldi, which drew 138 remarks, most of them pro-Aldi. I think comments add to the experience that is everygoddamnday.com. So long as you take the time to write them, I will take the time to read them, and post all that bring something to the table, and more than a few that don't.
My favorite subject in school was always American history, even though much of our past is violent and shameful, and it was my minor in college. Both of my attempts to compare the justice system on our western frontier (regarding the indigenous population) with that of the new Israeli policy on hanging Palestinians...did not see the light of day.
ReplyDeleteThey weren't really all that long, and they were mostly bullet points (no pun intended). Did not put Israel in a favorable light. Apologies if a nerve was struck, Mister S.
And, yeah, I'm probably also guilty of too many in-depth and long-winded personal reminiscences—I tend to expound at length and skimp on editing--and they probably don't add a whole lot to the conversation. They generate little response from other commenters...positive or otherwise.
But as an old vaudevillian (who's name has been lost to the mists of time) once said: "There are no new jokes...just new audiences."
Same is true for stories. None are new. Some do resonate. Others...not so much.
Thanks for allowing me to tell them, Mr. S. You did say that people enjoyed them.
A heads-up to the confused: My comment is dated April 11 because that is when this blog post originally ran, a couple of Saturdays ago. As a "two-fer"... and in a much shorter version.
DeleteThis blog post briefly saw daylight...very briefly...in the wee small hours of the morning. And then it was pulled, and it went away, into oblivion. Or so I thought. More like squirreled away for another time. Makes me wonder if anyone else saw it.
As a result, my reply (which was apparently the only one) was never posted...until now. Its resurrection surprised the hell out of me. Was going to try to re-do it...from scratch...and am glad that wasn't necessary... Thanks, Mister S. Mucho apreciado.
How did you arrive at the figure of 9 588 posts? Every calendar day since the summer of 2013 adds up to just under 4,700 days. How did that number more than double? And if your number is cut by half, then the 60,000 posts averaged out to nearly 13 comments per day. Every goddamn day. That kind of response is pretty damn good. Kudos!
Sorry for the confusion Grizz. Forty-six other people saw it (Blogger keeps count). It wasn't ready for prime time, but got posted accidentally. Actually, I took the number of posts, meaning drafts too — your calculations are spot on: 4,878 posts. I'll correct the text (See how useful this is?) Thanks.
DeleteI enjoy reading your comments, Grizz. Many of your adages, like the unnamed vaudevillian's jokes, my be old but are new to me.
DeleteWhich makes you a member of the new audiences.
DeleteThanks muchly for the shout-out...
I enjoy the comments (almost) as much as the posts! Some of the names have become very familiar over the years. Thanks for including them.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your column as well as the comments.
ReplyDeleteI think dear old Grizz 65 needs a blog of his own. I mostly enjoy what the fella has to say. Even if I don't agree with him. Which is often the case.
ReplyDeleteHey Mr. Grizz 65 I always look to see if you have commented & read your comments first usually. I don't comment back usually because I don't have anything of value to add. You a good job all on your own. Also, sometimes you are way over my head, but that's a good thing! I love it when you mention your feline friends because I am a life long cat lover. So keep it up. You are enjoyed more than you know.
DeleteI've had a comment or two not shared because they didn't pass your standards, Neil.
ReplyDeleteI am thankful for that. I like to think it helps me be a better writer and better at articulating my point of view. I suppose it also helps indicate when I'm wildly off base.
And I often enjoy the suggestions and locations that pour in relating to stories and posts.
So thank you for turning and keeping them on.
I admire your commitment to reading comments. However, in my talk radio days I was
ReplyDelete"strongly encouraged" to respond to listener comments (emails, texts & social). Considering my positions on politics and personalities, the task quickly became untenable and counterproductive. I told management that I was done. I'd provide a show, but they would collect the cover charge and bounce the hecklers...
I really don't get the MAGA blowback I used to. Either those people are now going to ground, like Tucker Carlson. Or they just stopped reading. Or they're all blocked and filtered by now. I rarely answer.
DeleteMiss you on the radio, Big John.
DeleteThanks for your determination, Neil. Your blog is part of my morning ritual. The comments are also worth reading.
DeleteNeil, I do think there is also a lot of bot activity that comes into play.
DeleteBravo!
ReplyDeleteI agree there are no upsides to posting comments on a newspaper site, but I think your readers deserve know how down the down sides are. It's not just that patroling comments is a pain. Comments can cause real harm, especially on hard news (columns and blogs are different as they're not purporting to be a straightforward source of facts - I clearly have no problem posting anonymously on a blog.) This anecdote is very dark, so approve the comment at your discretion, Neil, but I'd argue the darkness is the point.
ReplyDeleteI was a stringer for the Beacon-News maybe 15, 16 years ago, back when the Sun-Times owned it, incidentally. I wrote a story on a 3-year-old girl whose older brother (late teens or early 20s, if I remember) lit her on fire. She came into his room and was bothering him, so he straight-up lit his toddler sister on fire. A story that haunts. (I wrote the initial blotter item to get it up online fast, a staff reporter took over after - I never found out what happened to the girl.)
Since the brother wasn't a minor, the police released his name, de facto releasing the victim's family name as he was her brother. It happened to be a Hispanic last name so, naturally, the comments became this black hole of arguing about immigration. It was the usual screed about "criminals" and border walls, but my turning point on comments came when someone posted "We should build a wall - and electrify it!" They put out a call to electrocute Hispanic people in a story about a 3-year-old Hispanic girl fighting for her life in the ICU burn ward. Imagine if the family saw that. Imagine people trying to find any information - actual newspaper information - on what happened to the little girl down the block and finding the newspaper acting as common carrier for that. It's a moot point because, as you rightly point out, papers don't generally run comments anymore. But I do think people should have a sense of how bad it can get without the vetting you do.
More and more I believe Hillary was right about her basketful of deplon'rables remarks. I wouldn't say this was the main reason she lost, but one of them. Perhaps she shouldn't have said it. But it was hardly worse than the many things Trump said at the time.
Delete"...Hillary was right about her basketful of deplon'rables (sic) remarks. I wouldn't say this was the main reason she lost, but one of them."
DeleteShe was bang-on right, the problem is there's no way to say those exact words without the condescending tone leaking in.
You wrote: "I begin by assuming, correctly, that nobody but nobody cares what happened to me."
ReplyDeleteI write: Perhaps I'm taking this out of context, but I believe we all care about what happens to you. Your experiences and reflections make your writing so interesting. I, for one, freely admit that I am envious of the life you lead, the places you go, and the things you do. I find it pleasing to live vicariously through your work.
Thanks Mr. P., though I would underline, "begin." I BEGIN assuming that. You're referring to the finished product. My goal is to make people interested in stuff they never think about such as, tomorrow, Arbor Day.
DeleteI often read EGD in the very early morning, jumping to the site even before the daily link has gone out, and will often have thoughts that might be comment-worthy but aren't fully formed yet.
ReplyDeleteThat is, I'll ask myself, of myself, "What's your point?" If I can't come up with something that connects my writing to that day's column, makes it relevant, I'm not going to just sit in the comments section and blather away for three paragraphs. I might putter around the house doing other things for most of the morning while still pondering what to say, and turning over phrases in my mind.
I find the comments section of EGD to be very high-value, and while I'm sure that Neil filters out a lot of complete rubbish along the way, I will occasionally skim comments following articles on other sites (not social media like Facebook or X, but actual news sites), and I have a hard time finding anything that isn't simply tit-for-tat flamewar. Here I can find discussions of actual value, and the only thing I regret is that we can't all be sitting around a dining table someplace, doing this in person.
I like the sentiment expressed in Andy's last sentence and also resonate with Double D's comment. The comments section of EGD has successfully stayed true to its intent. It hasn't devolved into personal nastiness and we've gotten to know more about our fellow travelers along the way. A sense of online community exists here, which I haven't found on other sites. I enjoy learning new things about the online community members- where you lived as a child and what the neighborhood was like, who has grandkids that center their world, etc.. When Grizz was apprehensive about a planned out-of-town trip, I thought about him while he was away and hoped all was going well. I hope franco's out-of-state move is working out well and I'm glad he has stayed connected with us despite the miles. During a discussion of street names origins, I learned one of you lives close to me and walks the same streets. I feel proud on the commenter's behalf when I see their comments published in the Suntimes "we asked you..." section. I like EGD and I like the comments section! I get the sense there are a lot of good people here.
DeleteI'm aware of all the work and curation Mr S puts into making this a welcoming place, but I'm glad for the opportunity to acknowledge it. I know its a lot more than you signed on for when you started EGD. Thank you for doing it!
That's very nice to hear. It certainly seems to have come into its own, settled down a bit. I used to have a deranged reader who would leave dozens of unhinged comments at a time, sometimes under various aliases, and wading through those was becoming a job, and sometimes I'd just shut the comments off for a day, to make a point. But he's been quiet lately, and that improves the ease of posting these considerably.
DeleteI appreciate the comments almost as much as your EGD posting. Your column is frequently the first thing that I read in the morning. Often, I check back later in the day to see what others have to say (as I did today). Thank you!
DeleteWriting is easy. Writing well the way that you regularly do, much more difficult.
ReplyDeleteCertainly a skill that takes many years of training and practice.
The key it seems to me to good writing is talent ,which you clearly have. You pointed out many times that it also takes a lot of effort. Clearly you put in that effort on a regular basis.
Talented writer can occasionally pound something out in a half hour that is genius but it's not just that half hour it's all the thousands of hours that went before that makes it possible for them
I enjoy your writing immensely and appreciate the ability to comment and when one of mine ends up deleted before it sees print I understand that's your prerogative..
As you mentioned in your comment to Ray yesterday it's a damn site better than over drinking.
Glad you survived that bad habit hopefully you keep writing long after you retire. You've been fortunate enough to get paid but it seems you do it happily for free witness this blog and it must bring you much satisfaction.
Congratulations on a career path well executed.
Thanks Franco, that's kind of you to say. I don't know if I'd say "writing is easy" — I'm certain facile at it. It takes a lot of practice. I'm lucky in that I enjoy it.
Delete"Writing is easy. You just open a vein and let the words bleed out,
Deletedrip by drip." [Red Smith, 1905-1982, sportswriter and columnist]
I love the comments and commentors. And I have certain ones I like and read their comments, especially Grizz, smart, articulate and interesting. And although I think most people that comment are in the same choir, I think you get just the right amount. I can read them all, just the ones from the ones I recognize. Although I do read comments in other publications, I do think comments can give you a window into how some people in the world view things, good or bad, I think is always good to know, and surprising at times.
ReplyDeleteMost excellent analysis of how you have evolved regarding how to handle comments. I like them included but agree the “snarky” and just plain evil stuff should be edited out. If you want that stuff just visit any Facebook post and add a contrary opinion!
ReplyDeleteI kinda shudder to realize that I've read the vast majority of those 60,000 comments. Though I miss the participation of several folks who contributed in the early days, but no longer do (or rarely do), the average number of comments these days is almost certainly higher, and, as several have noted above, the quality is solid.
ReplyDeleteYears ago, I think I would have guessed that you'd have closed down this comment section before now. Glad to hear that your #1 troll has moved on, as it seemed like his onslaught might have been the reason, had you done so!
"I vet them rigorously." That is apparent, and much appreciated. While you refer to the process casually, it has to be quite the chore just to keep posting the comments, let alone reading them EGD. Thanks for the time, effort and trouble taken to allow us readers to chime in, NS. 🙂
Visit an Aldi's lately, Mr. S? ;)
ReplyDeleteI was at the Kohl's next to Aldi's earlier this week, and cast it a wary glance.
DeleteI was another appalled Aldi fan but don't recall that I joined the comments--though it's certainly possible. But I don't think you've written anything that generated a hateful response like your piece on trying to buy a gun. A reminder that there are some nasty nasty people out there, and many of them are proud gun owners.
ReplyDeleteI'm a daily poster on FB (I know, I know), but my rule there is similar to yours here. You are welcome to join the discussion, but it's my page and if you want to go off on another of anti-Catholic rants, you can go do it on your own page.
But thanks for EGD, and thanks for letting us comment.
Remind me again what it was you were appalled at — the idea that someone could be unfamiliar with your favorite store? Or that they could visit and come away unimpressed? Cause I don't see what all the moaning was about.
DeleteI wasn’t one of the commenters on the original post, but the many naysayers may have picked up a somewhat Marie Antoinettonian resonance on some of your points.
DeleteWhich was entirely intentional. It's odd to have people assault you for the mild arrogances which you yourself reveal and make fun of in the very piece they are damning.
DeleteI remember the first time I got a reply from you. It felt special to know that you care about us, and yes we care about you. Your column and blog are usually the first things I read every morning.
ReplyDeleteAnd I appreciate it. One advantage of being deeply obscure is that I. can give readers more personal attention than I imagine big name journalists can do. Though I once did get a nice letter from George Will after I sent him a book, so maybe they do too.
Delete