Tuesday, November 14, 2023

Simple point

    I wonder how many of those Americans who are going on about the supposed colonial nature of the founding of the State of Israel realize that every square inch of the United States was formerly owned by indigenous peoples, before it was stolen or swindled away from them. 
    If not, it was owned by Mexicans. The entire state of Texas, for starters. 
    And I further wonder if they realize, despite the popular expressions of chin music recognizing that fact, such as the plaque at right, at the entrance to the Field Museum, how they would react if the descendants of those cheated Native-American tribes, or else the heirs of those defeated Mexicans, decided they wanted their forebears' land back, and toward that end started randomly slaughtering people, the better to drive their point home.
      How well would that work?  How persuasive would that be? My guess is: not very. A reminder: it's always easy to give somebody else's land away. 

18 comments:

  1. A 60-year-old joke from a stand-up comic, at the Edgewater Beach Hotel:

    "If only Moses had made a right turn instead of a left...then the Jews would have had all the oil and the Arabs would have had all the sand."

    I still think that's a hoot...a real knee-slapper. Maybe I'm the 76-year old joke.

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  2. Neil-Mexico was "settled" same as the US. There are no Original "Mexicans", save for the OP's that were there when the Europeans showed up. So no, we didn't take land from "the Mexicans"; rather we were one group of Euros taking it from another.

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  3. I am disheartened by the behavior of the human race. I guess as long as homo sapiens walk the earth these murderous conflicts will go on, and on, and on. No one wins. No one is right. No cause justifies the violence and destruction. There will be nothing left for anyone to fight over, soon enough.

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  4. Your gifts for clarity, concise, and comprehensive sometimes leave me speechless. This is one of those times.

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  5. I suppose the Native Americans pushed out of their native lands (that they had previously pushed other Native Americans out of; the narrative gets weaker here) would not have been justified in attacking the evil light-skins, either.

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  6. What is lost in the shuffle is while humans are killing and destroying other humans, not only in the Middle East and Ukraine, but anll over, our world is falling apart.
    Rather than world leaders getting together to mitigate climate change, genocide, abject poverty resulting in mass migration, runaway capitalism and a thirst for power is turning our planet into a giant Easter Island.

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    1. I agree with you, Les. Humans have squandered their capacity for intelligence, problem-solving and planning. We have destroyed each other and our natural resources, and will one day destroy all that exists on our planet. We are the most destructive apex predator species ever to inhabit the Earth.

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  7. it would seem your terse, yet accurate description was a bit to uncomfortable for a couple folks. ah well...
    paul w
    roscoe vil

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  8. "A reminder: it's always easy to give someone else's land away." Balfour Declaration 1917: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." It was disappointing to read "your simple point" after your more nuanced column quoting Oz: it's wrong vs. wrong. The civil and religious rights of Palestinians haven't been respected, the rights of Jews inside and outside Israel haven't been respected. Any nationalism that creates tiered citizenship isn't going to work.

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    1. Well, that's the drawback of the EGD system. One day you say something and then it's another day and you have to say something else. Actually, I had a much stronger column on the subject, one that you'd like even less, ready to go. But I decided I didn't feel like the grief. So now the Balfour Declaration is a roadmap? Are you sure you feel that way?

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    2. Maybe there was some good intention in the Balfour Declaration but it seems to me that this is the cause of all this strife. Somehow this was pushed through with little foresight about what could happen, or worse, a blind eye was turned by those who could have stopped it.
      Regardless, there is no longer a peaceful solution as the hatred has been reinforced.

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    3. And this is why you are a braver soul than I. I couldn't make myself clear in just one post. I meant the Balfour Declaration as an example of "it's always easy to give away someone else's land." It doesn't work; the British and French were giving away someone else's land.

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    4. But all those other countries that the Brits created are fine — Saudi Arabia, et al, a desert populated by nomads. That rightly goes to House of Saud. The Jews have as much claim on Jerusalem as any other human group has on any other spot on earth. By perpetrating this dangerous lie, you doom the Palestinians to another 75 years of suicidal violence against a nation that isn't going away.

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  9. This is from Waging Nonviolence: Perhaps the most appalling of these legacies is the way Adolph Hitler and his regime consciously drew on U.S. actions toward Native Americans as a model for their murderous campaign in Eastern Europe during World War II. This is a connection explored by recent historians of Nazi Germany and detailed most comprehensively in Carroll Kakel’s “The American West and the Nazi East.” (For a related account of how American immigration, segregation and eugenics policies influenced the Nazis, see James Whitman’s fascinating “Hitler’s American Model.”)
    Jack

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  10. I'm not sure how what-aboutism gets us closer to a solution in the Middle East.

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  11. As long as the leaders of various countries continue to lead their nations in a way that does not respect the autonomy of other countries we will see conflict happening world wide. I am 71 years old and since my birth (and the birth of my grandfather, born in the 1880's) and going back ad infinitum there has been a war someplace and every single one of them has been about (like a common thief) "I want what you have" or we want to impose our will on you." Make a list of combatants and they will fall under one or the other. A never ending cycle. I fear that we are leaving a hopeless situation for those who follow. Like my grandchildren.

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  12. The language of the Balfour Declaration is very poetic, but not very legalistic. The term “national home” is not defined. What does it mean national home? Miri Weingarten, that we heard before, she interprets that as collective rights, national rights, for self-determination for Jews, which would be for the first time recognized as a nation and not just as a religion. This is an interpretation. This is actually not in the text. You could also interpret a national home in a different way. What is also missing from Balfour Declaration is borders. A national home in Palestine, what does that mean? A house, a town, a city? That is also not clarified.In fact, it’s a Colonial statement, which is very vague and could be interpreted as a violation of the Sykes-Picot Agreement. It could be interpreted as maybe just a gesture, but it was significant in the sense that for the first time the local population of Palestine, the native population of Palestinians realized that this very small community of Jewish immigrants that are coming from Europe to Palestine are not just immigrants coming for economic reasons, but they’re actually a political threat to their own existence. The latter is from this interview. https://imemc.org/article/shir-hever-on-balfour-how-67-words-shaped-the-middle-east/#:~:text=100%20years%20ago%20on%20November,best%20endeavors%20to%20facilitate%20the You can read the interview or watch the video. I don't know if many people know that there were very few Jews living in Palestin at the time. I have my doubts that there would have been a state of Israel if it wasn't for the Holocaust.

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