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| Venezuelan family at Sullivan High School Thanksgiving Dinner 2023 |
People are more or less the same. Whether they wake up in a mansion or a hovel, a condo or a shelter, they worry about making a living, raising their children. The details vary.
That shared humanity doesn't sit well with some folks. They get rattled by exterior aspects — skin color, language, ritual, clothing — so they want to try to squash those whose existence upsets them.
This is where the lying comes in. Since the target groups are not in fact demonstratively worse than anyone else, crimes must be imagined and assigned to them, and any actual crime committed by an individual must be conflated into a general group attribute.
On Monday, I invited readers to share their direct personal stories about immigrants, bad and good, worried I'd be in for some horrific tales, which I'd then have to print. There were none. Those who believe immigrants are bad didn't share anything severe. Someone's father's home was burgled; they didn't like seeing people they assumed were immigrants gathered on the street. Otherwise, they regurgitated what Fox News force-fed them the day before. I shared a taste on Wednesday.
Today, I want to turn the floor over to those who believe immigrants help this country. What impressed me first was the range of respondents.
"I served 12 years as Mayor of Grand Rapids, MI.," writes George Heartwell. "During that time (2004-2016) we welcomed many immigrants from all over the world, but primarily from Central America. A study was commissioned by the Dyer-Ives Foundation that showed that immigrants to Grand Rapids were 1) more likely than native born to start a business; 2) purchase a home; and 3) get involved in civic organizations, than were native born Americans. I say, bring on the immigrants!"
"Hi Neil, I am a truck driver," writes Howard Grimberg. "I go to many warehouses in the area. I know of fairly recent immigrants that work there. They all work hard and do a good job loading and unloading my truck. I agree they are a benefit to this area."
Weigh those two real observations against, "They're eating the dogs."
Have you been to a hospital? A nursing home? Immigrants carry the weight of the American health care system on their shoulders. My parents' caregivers are from Ghana.
Martin Stewart can relate. He writes:
"I welcome immigrants because of the time an immigrant(s) helped me. Almost 2½ years ago I was diagnosed with cancer. Throughout this journey, including my chemotherapy and care, Hispanic, Asian, and members of other incredible ethnic groups of doctors, PAs (physician assistants), nurses, techs and other highly talented individuals helped ease me down the road. I wouldn’t be where I am today, enjoying life, without them!"
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Neil,
ReplyDeleteI had no story to share, no memory of an encounter, nothing to help bolster the argument for migrants or immigrants. I also didn't have a story about how i was wronged by them either, though to be fair I've never expected to have one.
I am very glad to hear so many people have had good experiences with immigrants and migrants. As you noted on Wednesday, we owe a great deal to immigrants. From Levi Strauss to Albert Einstein, Madeleine Albright; from Dikembe Mutombo to Bob Hope; Sergey Brin to Irving Berlin. The list goes on and on.
Thank you for being a light in the darkness, a beacon of hope, a voice of reason and clarity. We must fight the hate and the ignorance, and you to a very nice job of doing so.
I am extremely surprised by these comments. My parents are immigrants themselves and I am the first to say that immigrants are just as bad as anyone else is.
DeleteI have plenty of stories of being wronged by them. When I was a child, we were robbed by a fellow Polish immigrant. The police didn't do a damn thing about it. That alone makes me bitter
To the guy who cited Madeline Albright as an example:
DeleteDude, are you serious!? Did you look at the woman's record!? She was a war criminal!
Due to the sanctions she put on Iraq, countless people died! The statistics are shocking. If memory serves, half a million children starved to death.
And that is just accounting for minors in one country. And those are just the official numbers. The real number is probably much higher.
I don't know if I can accept, "a light in the darkness," etc. — I'm too much of a weisenheimer for that. (To gauge my reaction to your comment, picture Homer Simpson fluttering his fingers at his sternum, going, "Lookit me! I'm a lightin the darkness!") But I do try to suss out confusing times. This is worse than 2016 in many respects, in that then we blundered into the disaster blind. Now we're marching — half the country anyway — eyes wide open toward utter disaster. It's a coin toss.
ReplyDeletelol.
Deleteyes, and I'm Mr. Burns... blah blah blah.
I have always believed that a true light in the darkness can only be lit and stay lit if done so by a weisnheimer. There is a wonderful piece in the most recent issue of the New Yorker called "Uncommitted" or "Among the Gaza Protest Voters." Its both terrifying and enlightening, comforting and abrasive, but it ends with a quote i think you will appreciate.
"'Dad was shaped by the pre-sixties left, where everything is about going through the proper channels,' he said. 'I accuse him of being too cautious, and he says I’m too impetuous. And maybe he’s right. He spent thirty-six years in Congress, and I only lasted four.'”
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/09/30/uncommitted-voters-gaza-election-michigan-harris-trump
besides, a wiesnehimer will turn their back to the wind, and thus protect the fragile flame from being extinguished.
Im convinced . many immigrants work hard for lower wages . The salt of the earth. we should welcome everyone to come here without restriction open the boarder and let whoever wants to come, without vetting.
ReplyDeleteNone of them come to engage in criminal activity, and it doesn't matter if they dont learn English , dont have a drivers license or car insurance, belong to street gangs, sling dope, and do murder. cause as we've learned from statistics and the anecdotal evidence contained herein , American born people do these things at a higher rate than undocumented immigrants. So there good.
Ive voted for democrats my entire life. am much farther to the left than many who comment here but im not clark st so my rant won't get published.
Dont be surprised when a significant percentage of newly naturalized citizens vote for trump. His bullshit resonates with the hispanic community especially
Third-generation pinko here, and have never voted GOP in my entire life, and I've been voting since '68. You may be far left, but you certainly don't sound like it in this instance. Just the opposite, in fact. Sounds like the kind of snark a Trumper would make. Aren't you in New Mexico by now,? Your life must be a lot more tranquil out there. All that empty space sounds inviting, especially to an old geezer like me.
DeleteAnd, yeah, I agree with you about "Hispanics For Trump." The Cubans in Florida think Kamala is a Commie, and the Mexicans elsewhere are socially ultra-conservative, because of their Catholic backgrounds. Too many of them love the Orange Guy. They need to be careful what they wish for, or they will find themselves south of the border before they know what hit them.
Feel better now, Franco? NS, employing his handy megaphone, has offered some realistic balance to a city and voters who have been subjected to 9 years of immigrant-bashing by a certain orange charlatan. Although the charlatan is not the only basher, needless to say, he's a *former president* who shouted to 67 million people on live TV that they're eating dogs and cats in Ohio. So, a bit of balance is in order.
DeleteNeil did not, however, erect the assortment of strawmen that you just pummeled. Not all immigrants are saints. Thanks for the bulletin. The fact that some of them can be taken in by the same bullshit that enthralls and co-opts Ivy-league-educated voters, Senators and Congresscritters is disappointing, but hardly surprising.
Since you're someone who is much further to the left than many here, I don't quite understand why you think your comment needs to be added to the mix in the current environment, but I do understand that you're pissed off at our host. So, way to go, FME, if this is indeed your comment.
Thought they were two different people. But you've been here since Day One, and I'm just a newbie from 6-7 years ago. Didn't FME just tell Mr. S to GFY and leave in a Huff? Or was it a Lin Tizzie?
DeleteKnew a Franco, years ago. He taught painting and drawing at SAIC, where the lions are. Isn't this the guy who had the chickens and got tired of South Side hassles, and departed for the desert Southwest? There aren't that many folks here anymore...the regulars, I mean...but I'm still confoozed.
All I know is what I see. And I see a so-called leftist who's just labeled all immigrants as irresponsible and uninsured thugs...the ones who steal and deal and rape and kill. Yeah, right. Sounds like the usual fascist snark to me. Don't care who it's from, and who is who. A fash is a fash is a fash...and from me...they only get a bash.
Unless I'm mistaken, Grizz (always a possibility!), FME has posted at least 3 different ways in the past. I thought this was one of them. He's also used Anonymous and then put his real name after the comment.
DeleteI could be confused myself, but this seems in keeping with things he's said before and the way his comments sometimes look. I think the the "leaving in a huff" is kinda reflected by his reference to his comment being unlikely to get published. You're right about the chickens (plus goats, which I thought was great) and the Southwest plans, but I think that all changed and he's moved elsewhere in the city, minus the farm animals.
He does seem to get around, so maybe it *is* 2 different people I'm getting mixed up. Clearly, it's hard to be sure about any of this, so you may take it all with a grain of salt. Regardless, he may be snarky, but he's no fascist. I don't know what prompted this diatribe, nor his recent dispute with NS, if indeed this is the same guy and not a different one!
It's wrong to paint all immigrants with a broad brush. It's also wrong to praise them while exploiting them. It's also wrong for them to exploit the next wave.
DeleteI did not intend to paint all immigrants with the brush of criminality. What I said is there are immigrants who do not follow the rules and honestly it starts by coming here whether you falsely claim asylum or do the Dodge to miss out completely on being processed in whatever cursory fashion. Awaiting a hearing. America needs to fix its immigration circumstance. I'm not calling it a problem. I'm pro- immigration we need immigrants but. This is chaos and it benefits giant corporations. And it drives down wages for others. And it's unfair to others. Every time you choose an undocumented person to do work for you because they're the cheapest. They should get paid what they deserve and they should have a path to citizenship. The ones that are already here and the ones that are coming next should be presented an orderly circumstance by which to enter and to live without the threat of deportation
You ask who I am? like I would know you go to the place that says a name and you put yours in. Just like all the rest of you. Who are you? I have no idea. We are All anonymice
My main story is my own: I'm an immigrant. I was adopted by a couple who otherwise would never have been able to have children (it was the days before IVF), from an orphanage in Athens, Greece when I was 3 years old. I've worked as a pizza maker, clerk, secretary, circuit court administrator, and eventually managed to go to college and grad school and became a history professor. Retired now with my husband. I have never been arrested. (Yes, I've been stopped for speeding.) I volunteered for 12 years in the prison system, teaching Alternatives to Violence. I've voted in every election I was eligible to vote for. I think I've been a pretty good citizen of these United States of America. BTW, my father's parents were also immigrants. My husband's parents were both immigrants.
ReplyDeleteI am married to an Asian -American man. My parents are both Polish.
DeleteWe once went into a restaurant owned by Polish immigrants. They called my husband a "monkey", which is something I have never heard an American say, ever.
If anything, immigrants are more racist than Americans are.
Yesterday I promised I'd tell some of my wife's immigrant stories. She works for a Cleveland outfit that tutors people who want to pass the state GED tests, and get that piece of paper. But it's more than that. They're taught basic, math and science skills, as well as reading and writing. The place is called Seeds of Literacy for a good reason.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also learned a shocking statistic from her...that two-thirds of Cleveland's adults are functionally illiterate, which is defined as the inability to read and write well enough to manage daily living and employment tasks. No wonder this city is in the shape its in. Its schools are abysmal, and its manufacturing economy has mostly disappeared. But that's old news.
There are many native-born high school dropouts, of course, but a number of the students she deals with at "Seeds" are immigrants, mostly Hispanics and Africans. She teaches them basic math, and reading comprehension skills. Some of them are not all that fluent in English, but they are incredibly eager to learn. The place has morning, noon, and night classes, to accommodate work schedules.
She finds it incredibly rewarding, and is constantly telling me about how nice and polite her pupils are. She loves what she does, and I love her even more for doing it. My ten years with Habitat For Humanity pale by comparison.
I am surprised by these comments. I used to live in a Latino neighborhood. Believe me, they can be just as bad as anyone else.
DeleteI used to date a man who was Latino. He would happily and shamelessly and without hesitation call black people the n-word , which is something I've never heard a white American in New York say, ever.
Even at the age of 19, he would fantasize about becoming a cop so that he could murder blacks and get the others to cover for him.
And that's just one example. I could offer others.
Unless your ancestors came over on the Mayflower, you are an immigrant; or if you belong to one of the many native American tribes, you are an immigrant. Everybody gets assimilated eventually. Remember the Irish, German, Italian immigrants-all had to work to become Americans. Every generation does. Get over it.
ReplyDeleteI am surprised by these comments. My parents are both from Poland. I am the first to admit that immigrants and refugees are as bad as anyone else.
DeleteAnd just as racist as anyone else. To be honest with you, if I heard someone saying something bigoted against blacks or Latinos or gays, it was usually a Polish person saying it, not an American.
You're missing the point. Nobody said immigrants can't be as bad as anybody else.
DeleteIt seems to me point is contained in the first line of your piece. People are more or less the same.
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to the orange, one say that they're eating cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio. People reflected on his history of denigrating immigrants. He does this even though he should know that everybody except indigenous people are immigrants. And they're not all bad. It is the first line of your story. Says they're not all good but the notion that Americans are regularly and severely being harmed by the presence of immigrants is false.
Witness the many testimonials from your readers overwhelmingly positive
My husband was called a "monkey" by a Polish immigrant!
DeleteThat's not harm!?
Neil responded to you, but you don't seem to accept what he said, Agatha. The overall point, which began Friday's column and Steve cited above, is that "People are more or less the same." Some are good, some are not so good, but vilifying immigrants as a group because of the actions of some individuals is not fair.
ReplyDeleteGranted, you've provided instances of "specific stories of harm that actually happened to them" which Neil requested on Monday and posted about on Wednesday. So, I suppose your replies are valid responses to the original column and help to demonstrate that there are good and bad folks among all groups.
But the Polish restaurant owner who denigrated your husband, while he may be a fitting example of unwarranted prejudice, was not a former president. Nor was the "immigrant who was 40 or 45 and had sex with a 15-year-old girl," whom you mentioned among Monday's comments.
Neither of them were running for president again, nor did they have millions of followers who are emboldened by their bad behavior to emulate them. There are examples in the past of demagogues referring to selected minorities as "vermin," like the contemptible orange former president has done. They didn't end well, either for the minorities or for those who were duped by the demagogues.